John and Charles discuss how the doctrines of William Branham and the Latter Rain movement evolved into the theology of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). They examine the deep connections between Branham’s message, Paul Cain’s influence, and John Wimber’s Vineyard Movement, tracing how elements like kingdom theology, power evangelism, and fivefold ministry were passed down and rebranded. Charles reflects on his personal journey out of the Message, highlighting the dangers of embracing doctrines rooted in Branham’s extra-biblical teachings, especially when they become institutionalized in church structures.
As the discussion progresses, the hosts emphasize that fivefold ministry—often considered a central doctrine in the NAR—originated in the Latter Rain movement and was further legitimized by John Wimber’s early teachings. They detail how Wimber’s later pastoral letters suggest a clear repudiation of these beliefs, even as he continued using the same language. Charles challenges listeners to investigate the roots of their theology, arguing that fivefold ministry, manifested sons of God, and positive confession form a dangerous ideological triad that has historically led to spiritual abuse and even death. Despite its appeal to many, they conclude that the NAR is built on a framework that was already flawed when it was first developed.
00:31 Hesitation to Discuss John Wimber
02:35 How the Three Latter Rain Branches Reunited
03:57 Message Cults and the “False Anointed Ones”
05:56 Paul Cain and the Outrage in Message Circles
07:20 Spying on the Vineyard
08:01 Wimber’s Role in Kingdom Theology Evolution
09:05 Five Characteristics of Kingdom Theology
16:01 Power Evangelism and Signs-Based Conversion
17:54 Use and Emphasis of Spiritual Gifts
19:00 Freeform Church Structure vs. Tradition
20:29 Repackaging the Same Latter Rain Framework
22:30 Vineyard Splits and the NAR Structure
23:35 Five-Fold Ministry Originated with Latter Rain
26:01 Five-Fold Ministry as the Route to Perfection
29:08 Where the Term “Five-Fold” Came From
30:59 Five-Fold and Manifested Sons—A Package Deal
32:54 Wimber’s Subtle Rejection of Five-Fold Ministry
35:06 Wimber’s Gradual Shift and Hidden Retractions
37:55 Did Wimber Even Write His Final Letters?
40:07 The Real Harm of the Ideology
42:10 Low vs. High Settings of Dangerous Doctrines
43:33 The Pipe Dream of Last-Day Revival
45:06 Apostolic Equipping Happened in the First Century
46:21 Book Recommendations on the NAR and Wimber
47:40 The Vineyard Schism and Paul Cain’s Prophecy
49:02 Competing Apostolic Networks Today
50:43 Wimber’s Fatal Mistake: Granting Credibility
51:37 Where to Learn More
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Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
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